have a soliding system and well run country. >> they are cutting corporate tacks. guys, you have been fantastic. dave is next with forbes on fox. >> health care law back in the headline. the presidential debate and now we are fining out the obama administration is telling states to start adding more people on the medicaid doyle . some of you say that is black mailing state to make the healthcare law look success employ. weome to forbes on fox. we'll have elizabeth john and rick and vict toria and mark and rich. good to see you. emac, is it black mail? >> under the law. you will see half of the uninsured possibly going in

through medicaid. the states administer medicaid and the deal with the federal government with the healthcare law, we will match a hundred percent of the cost. that will go down. if you don't do what we like we'll remove the federal fund the states, cops, fire men and teachers and transportation could get cut. >> mark, even supreme court roberts who liked the obama care and said it was not unconstitutional. but a state said who opts out stands to lose a small percentage of the medicaid funding but all of it. he said it is coercive . >> that is one justice's opinion and the fact is, it is a federal program . it was passed by congress and no cost to the state by three

year after that only 90 percent it is not a state's rights issue. it is to reduce healthcare cost. it will pick up the bill for uninsured and uncompensated care. health health costs are starting to fall because of obama care. >> rich, even the supreme court justice who generally favored or at least said obama care was not unconstitutional, said that this part is coercion and black mail if you will . >> not only is it coercion and justice roberts right about that. but what happens when you federalize everything. you take away the ability of 50 states to conduct their own experiments and that should slow down the pace of innovation . you can see the difference of republicans and democrats what should be in the hands of state or national.

they are reducing the budgets in the way the federal government are not. i am all for states and local governments having sovereignty. >> rich, that was a state program in massachusetts. >> i -- it was a program. the governor who made it happen is trying to make it possible. >> he defended that in the debate. withee worked with the democrats and came up with this. he didn't run away . he embraced it. >> he suggested that we apply it federally. we can do this all day long. getting to this question. not only is it not black mail but 30 million americans are praying that someone will get red state governors who are using it as a political tool to back it up. these people need coverage. the governors who are using it to score political points are

denying something that the health bill was to give them. >> john, the constitutional point this is the feds forcing the state to do something that the states should have control over, right? >> it turns the vision of the founding fathers on their head. they constrained the powers of the federal government so most policy making happened in the state and that is where the innovation would occur. the federal government has way too much money dictating what the states do. it gets things back ward and it is black >> victoria, what do you think? >> i agree, it is black mail. it looks that way. the larger issue. this level of spending coming out of the federal government on healthcare is unsustainable. 1960 we paid 10 percent for health health spending. today 25 percent .

10 years projected to be 33 percent. it is unsustainable. we don't have the money and it is eating up our budgets and we need to put competition in the markets instead of taxpayers dollars at the program. >> rick, this was sold with a proposition that it would not add a dime to the deficit. do you believe that? >> the honest answer, i don't think we know yet. most of the spending provision have not gone into affect yet and when they do it is experimental. >> it is not for the states emac who have to begin to set up the exchangings. there is no guarantee that obama care will be repealed and that it will not be in or out and states have to prepare right now . that costs money. >> it feels like a high school science project throw in the baking soda and soda and right

in the taxpayer's face. medicaid and medicare are rising by 17 trillion over 75 years due to health reform. a quarter of the state's budget is toward medicaid . medicaid part of the budget rising x. four times faster. >> mark, even the democratic governors are worried. governor cuomo is saying that he doesn't have all of the cash necessary to set up the exchanges that are part of the whole plan and what are they going to do? these states are strap asked they don't have the money? >> this is covered by the federal government. >> oh, yeah, how? >> they said they are going to pay it. >> is money coming down from heaven to pay this? >> they are paying 100 percent. and that's how we worry? >> you are suggesting that you throw the people by the road side and let them die.

>> of course not. >> and the facts is that there is a possibility of that? >> people are not dying on the streets . >> not yet. but soon. >> we can survive with our current system and we have if for years. it is going to get in more trouble as the states have the inability to pay for the exchanges. >> i don't think they are. i will not accuse you of throwing anybody by the road side to die. >> my mother would be happy to hear that. >> the take on the exchangings there. is nothing more free marketing than the idea of setting up exchanges so that health insurance companies have to compete. >> here is what the states are doing. indiana, and wisconsin and new mexico. look federal government. we don't want to knock out the people in the poverty. we want them to get federal

subsidies and put them in medicaid. that is what is going on. >> and victoria is nodding her head yes. >> i agree that is what is happening here. we are pushing a larger portion of people in the federal system. those exchanges may sound nice, but we are just expanding a broke yen bankrupt system. >> last word from vick tia. >> it is thank you, gang. >> there is an enfluence and great show. >> that's right jessica alba. neal cavuto's coverage was great and you can see him do it on thursday. he will be live in the presidential debate starting on fox news and starting at 8:00 p.m. on fox business. he will be back for the if i'm two presidential debates. >> hiking up the retirement age to save your retirement fun. one said do it and the other

said forget it. is that the best way to get your social security check when you do retire. we do the math and you decide. úa

>> a live look in a incredible site. commissioning ceremon for the uss michael murphy named for the late navy seal and medal of honor. lieutenant murphy was killed in afghanistan back in 2005 trying to help his team pened down by enemy fire. overseas, a major ruling in the vatican scandal. finding the former governor guilty of stealing private papers and documents and liking that information to the

journalist. he was sentenced to 18 months in jail. and the papal pardon is likely. >> and sending you back to forbes on fox. see you at 1:00. >> next saturday. a must see special cause of freedom. neal will be live focusoth countdown to catastrophe . as our nation barrels to the fiscal cliff. don't miss it next saturday. >> social security strapped more than anybody thought. a new government report rerealing that the trust fund can be could go bust. mitt romney said he will fix it by raising the retirement age by younger americans. president obama said bad idea. rich, who has the idea right. >> governor romney has it right.

fdr proposed sussocial security. average american lived in the 60s and now high 70s. we have the biggest population bulge. baby boomers just going in social security now. and so the idea that we can't follow the president's own simpson-bowles commission and raise it by two years is ridiculous. >> but john, we were made a promise. >> absolutely. i respectfully disagree. there is a dirty little secret of social security that we have no legal right to the accounts we are paying into. the government will say we'll give you what you want when we want is offensive . for individuals who are not socialist and want to own their retirement. they should be allowed out and no longer be a liability on the federal government for a system that is cratering under its own weight. >> mark, you support mitt

romney on this? >> well, i hate to say this, but i do support raising the age and i think that it is inevitable to do that for the solvencey for the system . i support something that mitt romney doesn't support and that is imposing a means test. i don't think warren buffet or mitt romney need to collect social security and it shouldn't be part of the system. we should have a means test and that would add to the solvencey of the system. >> emac. this is our money and we have paid out of our checks for many years and told we would get it back one day. >> no small irony, the courts ruled in 1960, congress can put its mitts on social security and it started doing that in the 60s. but here is the problem, i would say yes, means testing, but raise the retirement age,

make sure you have the anti-discrimination laws in affect for people who work until age 70 to get full social security benefits. you better have them in place to protect the elderly workers . means test for congress. theyy are tire aty age 50 and 80 percent of the pay. means test them, too. and victoria. emac makes a great point. delayed on your social security checks and then you are fired because you are too old. a lot of people can get stuck in the hole? >> yeah, it is a real issue. going fishing when you are retirement? most people want to work longer and don't want to go fishing. we are americans and harworking. and our whole system is rigged to get you off of the path. we are talking about certainly discrimination against old age

workers but also the fact if you continue to work beyond the social security age, all of that money in the system in terms of pay roll tax will not come back to you. we are disincenting people to work . we have to raise it and index it to life expectancy going forward. >> i will quote from mitt romney for president website rick, >> i do that all of the time. >> for future generation of seniors mitt believes it should be slowly increased to account for increases for longevity. >> i am congentitally social? they are both right. we do have to raise the age . there is no getting around it. we need to remove the caps. this is the most regressive

tax and stopping at $110,000. >> it would be regressive if the raise the caps. >> if you did raise the caps how much of a tax increase would that be? >> i haven't done the math. but i can agree with rick raise it but only in the grand bargain make all taxes at a flat rate. if you had 15, 16 or 18 percent. then yes, remove the cap on social security and everybody would be paying a flat rate. network we are escaping something and maybe for another discussion . but done you think you could hanle your money better than the government could? >> i think i could. people have to ask them. would your money be sitting there? >> i can do a better job. i don't want to aid something i will not get something back from. all i am asking is the freedom to opt out and not be a

liability on the government. >> vice-president biden's rival is saying the middle class is getting buried. cashen' in crew digging in to that one. american airline putting airplanes back in the air . a plan to make sure all planes are there. hike fares higher? the flip side coming up next .

>> >> are airline seats a greater threat than terrorist? airlines grounded to be checked for loose seats. whole rows came loose. worries that airlines are cutting back on maintenance to save money. >> i unfortunately say it is so. safety trumps bargain prices and without safe planes you will not sell the tickets. american airlines should consider raising prices and bring the laid off maintenance workers. and the bankruptcy thing is causing. and i think there is room to do that. flier demand is robust and

other airlines have been raising prices. >> rick, it is true that the problem of loose seats and such is not just mench airlines it is across the industry. >> raise prices on tickets or teach the mechanic how to tighten it down tighter. come on, this is ridiculous. all you have to do is tighten the bomits. if mechanics are careless, guess what there are people out of work that would tighten the bolt harder. >> one of us here is an actual pilot. rich, where do you come down on this? >> the reason i fly the airlines and myself around is the airlines are extremely safe . so let's just put it in context. loose seats have affected the airline safety. the problem is, if you raise prices, you have all kines of competition from soug west and jetblue and virgin america

that are happy to step on in the place of american. it is never a better time for a passenger to buy the ticket and internet price comparison and sites of where you can compare on time arrival and safety and comfort and all of those things. >> by the way, american airlines swears they are not cutting back on safety. that's one thing they say they are not doing. but what about hiking fare to make us safer. >> will nolt work. it is uation of false competition. there is not competition in this market want only way americans are making money is reducing seats and charging for nonseat type things. it is government sponsored type -- >> i am going to make people crazy. i agree with everybody. i like what mark and rich is

saying, too. look airlines need to do and going to raise fares . try to do it in a cabin pressure of stock prices that are not in the upright position for the airlines. >> first time emac as compromise and not taking an opinion. >> thank you very much. gang. >> coming up how retailers hiring for the holiday season are showing you what stocks to buy now. ♪

>> we have stocks ready to spread holiday cheer. waste management. >> i like that. bill gates is getting in that, and this is a sweet four percent dividend and buy it on weakness. >> proceed with caution temperature is not garbage stock but revenue is up and down. >>